"They are, to Pat's dismay, most definitely part of the "West".

Excuse me? Backwards, third-world countries with no formal language academies are "western" now?

I want whatever you are smoking.

"hey people", pat is behind the times, it is now mexico by de facto! and for years pat has been fighting for you but most of you don't care! and now you all will pay! the hell of civil and race war is coming! and it will end with the third world war that will kill billions.

i am up to do the right thing are you?

You want truth?

Check this out: http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.us/wanted/fled_list.asp?pagenum=1&action=fled

Or this: http://ag.ca.gov/wanted/info.htm

Mucho diversity there, pilgrims.

No one wants to record the national origin of these people, so we cannot say what the LAPD says, as there are no recordation requirements because the LAPD is hamstrung by pussy administrators.

I believe the LAPD would fight if they had some leadership--and not of the Norman Mineta variety that have had for the past decade or so.

"When I asked Mac Donald to provide her source, she said, "The LAPD fugitive warrants section gave me that figure." I don't doubt Mac Donald's word -- she is an old friend. Someone, Mac Donald won't say who, undoubtedly gave her this misinformation."

We are not talking about drunk driving here - we're talking homicide. The LAPD may well not "collect" such data to give to the general public, but I have no doubt that the homicide squad knows quite a bit about these suspects. I don't doubt for a moment that it's true.

"what happened to the democratic right of the citizens of the US to decide who will settle in their country and their right to have the democratically enacted immigration laws of the US enforced?"

They still have that right. Unfortunately they don't have the right to do so without the influence of individuals spreading lies.

How Mexico views the Spanish part of its heritage:
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/81summer/br-cosmic.htm
(...)
In general, Mexico's colonial past has been interpreted as a negative experience by modern scholars. Within Mexico this interpretation is based primarily upon political concepts which idealize pre-Cortesian culture and condemn Spain as a cruel, autocratic nation which forcefully imposed itself upon Aztec civilization through bloody conquest.
(...)

Dave (AKA Linda Chavez),
All very interesting trivia, but this is the kind of dispute that causes us lose sight of the central question: what happened to the democratic right of the citizens of the US to decide who will settle in their country and their right to have the democratically enacted immigration laws of the US enforced? Why is every Third World country assumed to have the right of self-determination, but not the US? Someone whould pose this question to GWB and his allies-on the immigration question- in the MSM.

BTW, Tancredo should call for Bush's impeachment on the immigration question. Bush has now had many years to make an honest attempt to enforce the law but has offered up nothing but inaction, the occasional dog-and-pony show, obfuscation, sentimental drivel and outright lying. Besides, he is a lame duck who has lost the trust of the voters, and he almost certainly will not win it back.

Mexicans-especially the ones who migrate to the US- are largely mestizos and Amerinds who reject the Spanish part of the national heritage. Are there any statues of Cortez or any other Spaniard(aside from priests) in Mexico? None that I'm aware of. Mexico is a country where even upper-class blue-eyed blondes feign mestizaje . It would be patently absurd for the ruling elites of purely European appearance to claim to be indigeneous,so the myth of the "cosmic race" is perpetuated.

How delightfully pompous.

I wonder why we should take someone seriously who thinks the largely Hispanic immigration to the US signals the "death of the West". Even the simplest rube must know that Mexico, Central America and South America are filled with the progeny of Spanish and Portugeuse colonists. They are all Christian countries with a strong European pedigree. They are, to Pat's dismay, most definitely part of the "West".

It is a quite easy leap to Buchanan equating "West" with Northern European whiteness. Which he does. And has. For decades.

It's not race-baiting to call it like it is. And it ain't a smear if you're right.

"some of Buchanan's "facts" are mere factoids. Let's take one of the most stubborn factoids to emerge in the immigration debate, one that Buchanan cites as do other commentators: 95 percent of all the outstanding homicide warrants in Los Angeles, which total 1,200-1,500, are for illegal aliens. Sounds pretty damning, that is until you try to pin down where it came from and what it means.

I've been tracking this particular factoid for a while, since it crops up over and over again, and I've even exchanged e-mails with the source, Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute. In 2004, Mac Donald wrote an article for the Manhattan Institute's City Journal, "The Illegal Alien Crime Wave," in which she first used this statistic.

The problem is, the Los Angeles Police Department doesn't collect information on the immigration status of criminals, much less suspects, so there is no database of how many illegal aliens are wanted on outstanding homicide warrants. When I asked Mac Donald to provide her source, she said, "The LAPD fugitive warrants section gave me that figure." I don't doubt Mac Donald's word -- she is an old friend. Someone, Mac Donald won't say who, undoubtedly gave her this misinformation. But several calls to the LAPD elicited the same response: We don't collect such information -- which was borne out by searching all available databases and talking to respected criminologists. "

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LindaChavez/2006/08/23/banishing_factoids

The horde of illegals in this country are over-taxing the healthcare, educational and prison systems, causing a monumental burden for the American taxpayer. And, on the most part, these illegals have no intentions of assimilating. Hell, in parts of the southwest, Americans are the aliens. I know of a fourth grader who has to take MANDATORY Spanish in Connecticut! No choice - mandatory! Give me a frigging break! When is enough going to be enough? It's time to throw all the illegals out and seal our border with Mexico so not even a snake or scorpian can cross into this country. And our weak-kneed, spineless politicians had better get cracking, and each party had better stop catering to these illegals in order to get the Hispanic vote. In my estimation, this is a bigger problem than terrorism.

They wouldn't all be current either. Dave

Could be......

And it could be a number over time. I can't pick up my copy of PB's book until tomorrow so I can't look it up yet.

So that's it? That text on Borderline, the idiotic 'blog' the LAT puts up? At least they have the decency to label it as "opinion". Uh, OK, sure. But like I said before...not very convincing.

But so far neither is Heather MacDonald.

Anyway, just in case you're too fucking lazy I emailed the Manhattan Institute to ask about the source of this statistic. We'll see what they say, if anything.

Why didn't the Borderline bloggers (err, pun intended) at the LAT do that and report that result instead?

http://opinion.latimes.com/immigration/2006/05/according_to_th.html

Truth: When the L.A. Times investigated this they were told by Jane Robison, press secretary for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, that the D.A. does not keep track of this number; a representative with Detective Headquarters said the same.

BTW, do you have a link for this? Did the LAT publish something? If so you ought to be able to post a link, or do an archive search and post the synopsis along with the pertinent info -- e.g. date published etc.

Get right on that, OK?

And TIA.

"I... will continue to... regard the number with mild skepticism"

good for you

A figure taken out of thin air...

Again, you don't know that.

Look dude, you have a golden opportunity here: Heather MacDonald is well known and writes convincing -- even powerful -- articles about the problems caused by illegals and non-enforcement of immigration law. Discredit her and you've accomplished something (from your point of view especially so, perhaps). So if you think she's putting out bullshit, prove it. Contact her and ask for the source of her data. Etc. Then publish a definitive refutation proving the number was either wrong or made up. I'll hang on for that. Until then I, like most intelligent, non-pedantic people (does this subset of humanity include you?), will continue to do the common sense thing: regard the number with mild skepticism, while at the same time knowing that even if it is not the literal truth, the accurate figure would no doubt still show that illegals are disproportionately involved in violent crime in LA. Which you don't need her to know, in any case.

You have a point there. A figure taken out of thin air (based on no facts and that the speaker has no way of providing any shred of evidence to back up) could be true.

It's extraordinarily naive to believe the figure after it's (sic) legitimacy has been refuted.

You haven't refuted it. And I never said that I personally believed it, literally. Here is what I do believe (pay attention): the number seems quite high, so some note about the source, i.e. some confirmation of how it was arrived at, is in order; I would not be surprised if it was true; I would not be surprised if it was not true, i.e. that it overstated what I know well to be true -- that Hispanics (most illegals are Hispanic, especially in LA) commit a disproportionate share of crime, especially violent crime, which is true across the country, including LA.

It's extraordinarily naive to believe the figure after it's legitimacy has been refuted.

"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which total 1,200-1,500, are for illegal aliens."

I think this comes from Heather MacDonald; in fact, she cited the same statistic, albeit for a particular time period, in her congressional testimony:

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide in the first half of 2004 (which totaled 1,200 to 1,500) targeted illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) were for illegal aliens.

Heather MacDonald is someone who ought to know what she's talking about -- someone who would not testify before Congress about something unless she was sure of her facts. But anyone can see the figure is quite high. So if you have doubts about whether it is true or not, why not contact her and ask her where or how she came up with this number?

I think it is a little naive to believe that just because the LA Times reported that LA law enforcement officialdom would not, or could not (were not able to) confirm the figure that it is not true.

"BTW that 14,093 is NEW cases in 2005. CA could easily have 40,000 cases"

They wouldn't all be current either.

...the disproportionate degree of disease and crime brought into the country by illegal aliens.

Could the part about disease be true?

Wide disparities continue in the rates of TB among California's racial and ethnic groups: the rate for Asians/Pacific Islanders is 30.4 per 100,000 individuals; for African-Americans it is 10.4 per 100,000; the rate for Hispanics is 11.0 per 100,000; for American Indian/Alaskan Native it is 3.2 per 100,000; and for White, Non-Hispanic, 1.9 per 100,000.

BTW that 14,093 is NEW cases in 2005. CA could easily have 40,000 cases.

For the fourth consecutive year, over half of new TB cases (54.3%) were in foreign-born persons. The case rate among foreign-born persons was 8.7 times higher than among U.S. born persons (21.8 vs. 2.5 per 100,000). More than half (56%) of the foreign-born cases in 2005 were reported in persons from Mexico, the Philippines, Vietnam, India and China.3

From the American Lung Association report that Dave probably got his information from. Remember that TB was basically wiped out in the US prior to the massive influx of third-world immigrants so 14,000 isn't what I'd call great news. Also remember that these are reported active cases.

Read the whole report for more bad news: http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35804

Last week in the Washington Times, columnist Tony Blankley introduces Pat Buchanan's new book "State of Emergency". Blankley refers to

"unimpeachable facts"

and the disproportionate degree of disease and crime brought into the country by illegal aliens.
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060815-094240-1743r.htm

Blankley cites two facts [sic] as examples:
1. "In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which total 1,200-1,500, are for illegal aliens."
Truth: When the L.A. Times investigated this they were told by Jane Robison, press secretary for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, that the D.A. does not keep track of this number; a representative with Detective Headquarters said the same.

2. "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, California now has almost 40,000 cases of tuberculosis."
Truth: Reportings of tuberculosis for the ENTIRE NATION were only 14,093 for 2005. The number of cases and the rate per 100,000 has declined every year since 1992.