"A minimal fine and payment of back taxes for 3 out of the last five years that will be more than offset by EITC benefits in the majority of cases; a toothless English learning requirement(no one with a working brain cell thinks that anyone will be deported for failing an English language test);go to work- which is presumably why they came here in the first place".

I think people who support earned legalization would agree on the following criteria:
1.pay a fine
2.pay back taxes
3.learn English
4.stay employed

Now lets consider your concerns:
1. a fine: You say the fine is minimal. The total fines in the senate bill are $3150 per individual. You say that is "minimal". For a family of 3 making less than $30,000 a year, thats a pretty hefty fine, if they have to pay close to $10,000 in fines to get legalized. This is in addition to all regular application and processing fees, and attorney fees, which sometimes run up to $2000 per person. Hardly 'minimal'

2. pay back taxes: they only have to pay 3 out of 5 years. Now, I agree with you a bit here. I would make them pay all 5 years. And NO, they dont get any refunds or EITC credits for work done illegally. There is an ammendment in the Senate bill which states that.

3. They have to be learning English to legalize, they have to pass an English proficiency test to become citizens. What else would you want from them?

4. Stay employed: They have to be able to support themselves.

Now, I dont support everything in the Senate bill (like the tax thing). But it has all the ingredents of earned legalization, although it could be improved. Just my 0.02 cents.

I described "earned legalization" as put forth in the Senate bill and as vigorously defended in the public arena by the psychotic John McCain. No other "earned legalization" proposal has yet been made, and you can't argue for or against against something that does not exist.
I would wager that the vast majority of those Estadounidenses who say they favor "earned legalization" have no idea of the reality behind the phrase. Certainly the lies and obfuscations of McCain would do nothing to prmote their understanding.

look guys the deal has been made for the death of the USA AND THE THIRD WORLDS PEOPLE ARE HELPING.

The pig's of both parties want you as dead or enslaved A.S.P. Did any of you guys hear what the pig castor is doing with our oil, yes i said our oil!, this evil rat castor is getting a deal from bush and the pigs in mexico city and if you want to know more watch out for this coming story that will make you understand what one world will do to you soon.

do not cry oh children for Fred is here and will stay until the end of time, what do i need more VA DRUGS.

John just the 30 million evil gang memebers who rape/ murder. seel drugs to kids shot low life cops join La Raza and hitlers MEchA boys, can i say this, " ALL WE ARE, ASKING IS GET US! you get what i mean? John be good think mexico city think mass murder of this nation for castor and red china and bin laden, have fun with the evil victory for evil people that love hitler and bin laden and have parties in his name!

Now keep in mind that ALL those people are entitled, under current law, to come to the U.S, they would only have to wait twice as long.>/i>

Now immigration to the US is an ENTITLEMENT

You TOTALLY miss my point. My point is not that anyone in the world has a right to immigrate to the US. Of course not. My point is this: most the "new immigrants" and "increases in legal immigration" people are whining about in the bil apply to individuals who, AS CURRENT IMMIGRATION LAW STANDS, WOULD EVENTUALLY IMMIGRATE TO THE US, and are currently caught in backlogs. The senate bill only increases some quotas to make their wait shorter. Many US CITIZENS currently have relatives stuck waiting for years and this would help them out.

About your other point, we can all disagree on what earned legalization would comprise of; that is immaterial, the point being that the majority of Americans disagree with your position, which I assume is the removal of all illegals from the country.

Now keep in mind that ALL those people are entitled, under current law, to come to the U.S, they would only have to wait twice as long.>/i>

Now immigration to the US is an ENTITLEMENT!

You might be upset that the majority dont support your view. Even Michelle Malkin admits a majority of Americans (>61%) support an earned legalization approach. Accept the facts. The majority of the public dont share your view; dont keep trying to convince yourself otherwise.
Earned legalization sounds warm and fuzzy, but what does it really mean? A minimal fine and payment of back taxes for 3 out of the last five years that will be more than offset by EITC benefits in the majority of cases; a toothless English learning requirement(no one with a working brain cell thinks that anyone will be deported for failing an English language test);go to work- which is presumably why they came here in the first place.

"The "guest" worker component is separate from the legalization component; the latter would grant amnesty to several million current illegal aliens and that amnesty isn't tied to the "guest" worker scheme"

Its pretty obvious where you stand on the issue, but you shouldnt let it color what you present as "facts". The legalization is actually part of a guestworker program; the senate bill creates two guestworker programs, one for illegals currently here, and another for future applicants from outside the country, capped at 200,000 a year.
The newly legalized illegals would recieve guest worker status for 6 years, after which they would be eligible to apply for green cards. At least get the facts right.
The "doubling of legal immigration" and "endless chain migration" you refer to are simply a result of increased quotas, to help eliminate backlogs. Some countries are backlogged by as much as 15-20 years. Now keep in mind that ALL those people are entitled, under current law, to come to the U.S, they would only have to wait twice as long.
About not disclosing whats in the senate bill, this is like the pot calling the kettle black. The House bill, apart from the felony provisions, has so many anti-LEGAL immigrant provisions crammed into it. I'm not sure how many Americans would still support it if its full ugliness were brought to light.
You might be upset that the majority dont support your view. Even Michelle Malkin admits a majority of Americans (>61%) support an earned legalization approach. Accept the facts. The majority of the public dont share your view; dont keep trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Looks to me that NBC Is asking mexican drug dealers about mass illegal Immigration the fact is most of the boys on the inside love Mexico because of the money and power that comes out of working with rats in Mexico City.
Check out how much money some have in Mexico and how much Money many are making on Mexico, read the book "Into The Buzzsaw", and understand what is happening.

by the way so many of our so called Politcans have cut a deal with so many others like MEchA and La Raza its a joke, the Defacto making us into a third world country is well on its way and the only way anyone can stop this coming evil is to understand what happened in 1933.