To Peter:

First, thank your your support in the dream Act and statting your extremly valuble opinion on this subject.

Anyway, to your first point (and my defense) I must say Ithat I dod not come here illegally. My parents came here legally and I was brought here with them. I was never my choice. And by the way, I am not placing blame on anyone; and I am certainly not defending my parents for what they did to me and my little brother. Only they have their reasons for doing what they did. I hope this is very clear to you and everyone else reading this.
So, as far as using the touchy term of "American" I ask: I having a piece of paper that says 'American' more important than beign an American at heart? seriously...before answering this question back with the typical fuck you-answer, I beg you to think deep inside and think about it. I know a good bunch of guys fighting a war in Iraq with just a green card that are more americans than alot of natural born in the US. I ask you also: How many paper Americans out there can't even speak English, work and earn an honest pay? Wich do you prefer to have living next you? someone like me living in this coutry long before hair grew on my face, that not only knows the language, but grew up playing baseball and football with you in the park, some one that understand the culture or some jack ass that found a loop hole in the system and now uses his newly 'american' status for goverment aid costing us millions in tax money? You may have not known it when you were groing up, but you probably used hang out with more illegal people than you reallize on a daily basis. I bet this is still the case with you every single day, and you just can not tell the difference. Peter, I am probably the guy that sits next to you in class or the next cubicle down the hall. Probably already your supervisor at work.

Again, as an American I know there is a huge immgration problem (yes I said it again, so what?) Illegal immigrants do not deserve any privileges or special treatment. Unfortunally, they deserve to be deported unless they find a legal way to stay in the United States. But there are people like me that have no place to be deported to. The damage is already done; so I'll ask again: Who do you prefer to give a green card to in this country?

To Jorge

"We are not asking for special treatment, but a way to simplify or status as Americans." what are you talking about?????? you came here illegally and just expected everyone to recognize you as an american because of the sake that you have been here for 10 or 20 years? You shouldn't be blaming anybody except your parents. "It is important for everyone to understand that we are americans too." I don't agree with you. Maybe you have an American value, but you are not an American before you become a naturalized cizten. Otherwise,
there is no need for law, and the term of American is meaningless. Although I do support the dream act, I think it is a good public policy. However, don't just take it for granted. We are trying hard to help you guys, so be more patient and humble!!

Once I was brought into this country I had no idea I was an Illegal Immigrant. It wasn't until the day I started talking to a NAVY recruiter that my dad decided to break the news to me on what my future was really going to be like. Never in my life did I feel more confused about my true identity and nationality, for I was no longer a Colombian, and definetly not an American.
Still, deep inside, there was only one nation I could trully call home, only one where I actually felt beign a part of: The United States of America. After all, I knew of no other place; I'd been living here since the age of 9; when I had no choice in much of my life and all was done for me, for my own good.

The reallity as an American (yes, I think of my self as nothing else)is that I do not agree with illegal immigrants to pay lower tuition than American citizens. I think the rules should apply to all in the same way. After all the argument here is apperantly just tuition.
See, many schools require that you live in the state for a least 12 months before paying in-state tuition, so I think that anyone, regadless of what their situation is, provide proof of residency in that state and pay what they deserve.
So, if the Dream Act is going to give illegal immigrants or "non-official Americans" a green card to fix their status, pay taxes like everyone else, and become productive members of society, then they too should pay the same as "offical Americans" do for their tuitions. Same goes if they decide to attend a school in another state, if they do not reside in that state, then they should pay out-of-state tuition like everyone else.

It is important for everyone to understand that we are americans too. We are not asking for special treatment, but a way to simplify or status as Americans. Even if it takes 5 extra years after getting our green cards. Not many people realize how hard it is just to get one. My father, for example is beign requested by my uncle and its been approximately 3 years since the paper work was submitted and he still needs to wait a year more for his actual interview with INS officials. All this time he could have been that "lawfull productive, tax paying individual" every one wants illegals to be. Or do we just want them or of here?

I think the DREAM ACT is good and it is good for the coutry and also help the economy and I know there is a lot of racist people out there and IM telling you this because IM a wealthy guy they only talk to me because im wealthy but they are worthless to society and are afraid to say im racist alone they always need to have like 20 guys in back of them and even then they are still afraid. DREAM ACT is good and minors are not responsible for their parents actions. Here in CA there is this thing going on about the drivers license, Don't know much about because I have mine. But a couple of nights I got hit by a indiginous guy from Mexico and he was real nice he had a toyota tacoma, old one and he hit my Denali and he was real worried and I told not to worry I was not going to call the police and report an accident so he proposed to go to GMC dealer and reapir the damage and the total was going to be $2300 he was shocked but said it was his fault and I saw him make a lot of phone thru his cell phone and he told me he was going to borrow the money he still needed to complete the transaction and he only had like $1200 in his account, so he got the money he needed and then told me if it was OK and I let him pay and I was talking to him and he told he has a daugther who was turning 15 and they were going to have a 15th party to those of you who know what that is. So he told me he was saving up, and by the way when his wife and daughter arrived to the shop, his daughter was so good looking and I am only 18 maybe I shold go out with her. So then after I called my driver to come and pick me up which took him forever I don't know why and I told him to give his number and Then I went to the bank and $2300 out of my trust and called him later that evening and arranged to see him and payed him the money and told him that if he needed any financial support for his daughter 15th party he could count on me. What I am trying to point out here is that these people are not Terrorist and are only here to work and go on with their lives and thats it. Ive been to Mexico and its beautiful there and people are real nice, these are not terrorist and I am looking forward to go to the 15th birthday because I am godfather of the banquet they are renting. Well everyone this is the only time I will be writing here and everyone take care.

i just wanted to thank "native pride" for your comments about this situation. It's true, everyone seems to forget that this country is full of immigrants, where you've been here longer than someone else, doesnt make u a native of this land. The only true natives of the land *are* Native Americans. And for all any of us know, some other race might have been here before them, but the point is, immigration, the cultural melting pot that is America, is what makes this country so great. That is how we get the diversity and the variety of ideas that lead to compromises that better all of our lives.

And to anyone who thinks that illegals are taking jobs away from the "true Americans" try calling up America OnLine tech support, because the US jobs are getting outsourced to places like India and South Africa. Fight against outsourcing of jobs(esp technical and computer jobs) and then see how abundant the job oppertunities will be this country.

Hello
I am a 23yearold female who is a Native American
For those who do not know what that means, it means that my people where here before anyone elses was. so this is my take on things.
My best friend like it or not is a mexican my boyfriend is also mexican. They both came here because their parents came here illegal. They both had to spend alot of money to a greencard or what have you just so they can work,go to school or what have you.
What is sad is that they pay taxes but can't even get them back because they have to spend so munch just to be a citizen.
I am from a family of nine, my father is full blood native. So is my mom.
My father workes at an oil company he makes more then 50,000 a year but you know what is sad is because he has seven kids he can't put us threw college or anything like that. We turned to grants or what have you we can't have none of that because he makes to much. So what do i do?
My father makes to much money for us to get help but yet not enough to feed and clothe my bothers or sisters. So who do we turn to. Our tribe will thanks to your government they really can't help us much either. Because your government wants to put a stop on that.
So lets ask ourselves who really is illegal and who isn't?
i am full blood native american and i am proud
it makes me really really sick to know that people are bitchen because people from mexico or what other country there form just want a better futur like the rest of us.
Lets remember who were the first to be illegal here. Native Americans are called that because we are the "REAL PEOPLE OF THIS LAND" like or not!

I am a Naturalized US citizen living in this country for the past 15 yrs. Listening to all these so called Americans putting down illegal immigrants? I wonder if they even know how their ancestors got to this country? I wonder if they even know that their ancestors came from some other country. The only true Americans are the Native Americans accept it! You so called Americans need to check into your family tree and learn your family history. Question, What generation American are you?
You guys stop arguing with Terry, she makes absolutely no sense.
I support the DREAM Act! Hooray to Sen Hatch and Durbin.

I think you are the ones that are ignorant. You aren't even looking at this situation from the Americans' point of view. The only reason why you all are for the dream act is because it applies to you. You just don't want to go back to your countries.

OK well I just want to begin by saying to all of those who are against the DREAM Act that I respect your way of thinking but quite frankly I don't understand why you would oppose to the passing this Act when all it is doing is helping the many undocumented students who are doing so well in school and are only doing things to help this country. Many of these students (including myself) left their country a long time ago with their parents and have lived here ever since. They may have some problems in the speaking or writing of their native language and are more proficient in the English language than their own. In my situation I have been living in the United States since the age of 5, I am a very good student, I'm active in my community and have gone to plenty of leadership conferences which I am using to help my community. Now to point out like a lot of other people have pointed out that us "illegals",as people refer to us, do pay taxes and nobody is paying for our education but our parents. Well I think that everyone should be rooting for this DREAM Act to pass but unfortunately I know that this is not possible so the people that do want this Act to pass should try to do anything possible to get this law passed to help out all us "illegal students."

PS~ also try to find people in your community who would like for this Act to pass and make up a petition and send it to your Senator so they can see how many people are interested in this.

Roger: regarding your post about the dream act
again read, my own post, a few ones above yours so you can understand my bitterness and my background.

1) the dream act does not encourage ppl to come in here illegally as it CLEARLY states that "Age: Immigrant students must have entered the U.S. before age 16." Therefore, the dream act will only cover those children(including myself) that have been here for a certain number ofyears. So your point of it encouraging more immigrants is null and void.

i ,personally, came here when i was 10 years old
i only identify wit this country as being my home
why should i be persecuted and sent back to a place where i could be raped or killed for my religion and my nationality, just because you were born here and i wasn't?

like i said in my previous post, i actually, technically, came here legally on a temp visa, but what i could offer to my country(the USA), i think is worthwhile for me to live here

i am much more intelligent then a lot of US citizens i kno...so i have an idea, how about we, all the legals and the illegals, chuck out all the morons and keep only the intellectuals and considerate people, and this country would be a lot better off...

this is really nobody's country...everyone seems to forget that
this country is based on immigration
the only people who have the right to kick anybody out are the native americans, so if a group of them asked me to leave, and i would be able to explain to them what i think i have to offer to this country, and they would still want me to leave(which i highly doubt)...then that's one thing...

over the course of history, one ethnicity or the other is considered to be the outcast...like the irish and the italians

just trying to throw people and their lives away, doesn't work, as history proves it...yet certain folks don't want to learn that lesson.

also, to point out to you, Roger:
represent not reciprocate(also incorrect spelling) ..learn your native language: English, instead of pointing out who belongs in this country...
because to me, only true correct English speakers and spellers should be here...
and to everyone else who doesnt speak or spell the language properly, pls do not take my post offensively, i'm just trying to make a point to Roger here

and Roger from your post, saying "obsolete generations" you also have ageism - shame on you
and btw, illegals don't raise taxes, Republicans do =P

also, when you debate an issue, you should tend to stick to that issue...
I hope i'm not the only one here who noticed this, but your post jumped from one topic to another without any evidence to back your points...

About squeezing the gov't out of money, illegals do pay taxes on what they make, and they never see a dime of that money, which is what more than one person on this web site has explained so far.

the Dream Act does not take away financial aid from anyone else because financial aid is based on the sole person, not on the country
and the second reason why it doesnt take away financial aid, is because they are amending it anyway, for the recipients only to get state aid, like TAP

I DO NOT get health benefits or any sort of aid, no matter how much i need it.

A lot of your issues are irrational paranoia, so pls snap out of it, because we need fewer people like you in the world.

let's hear it fer the DREAM ACT!

People, this is exactly what our country is about! Being able to openly agree or disagree in numerous issues. The DREAM Act opens the door to education,prosper and change for a group of people (regardless of origin)that historically was denyed access to higher education and that eventually will become the majority. It also provides a chance to legalize student's immigrant status on the basis of their academic accomplishments and future assets to our society as a whole, rather than by marriage or employment sponsorship. Bravo! for the Dream Act and the opportunity for change. Terry, FYI the IRS provides tax id numbers (Form-W7)for undocumented workers to pay their taxes in addition to the "normal" wage reductions incurred building your homes, highways or cooking some of your meals. Ironically we tell them they are not welcome in our society.

I disapprove the recent bill called the Dream Act that has made it to the senate. I don't think illegal immigrants should get any assistance in financial aid for college tuition. They are not citizens of this country and they shouldn't get lower tution rates as opposed to natural born citizens who have to pay out of state cost to attend a university not in their home state. I'm a 21 year old at a university, I think this democracy is warped. It has too many loop holes that corrupt society. I think passing this bill only makes matters worse, because people who don't live here may think they can get special priviledges. This bill also takes away financial aid for others in need of assistance. Affirmative action should not even be permitted because these different ethnic groups didn't experience discrmination, a generation a long time ago did. It is just a way to squeeze money out of the government. The government caves in because this democracy is weak. We have people running the government that can't think for themselves. Always satisfy lobbies so they can get thier money. Immigrants should be deported out of the U.S. California is so much in debt, because some many illegals live there and get free health care and schooling. The Dream Act is just another problem in this society in which we all live in. Help U.S citizens before aliens. This bill just encourages more refugees and immigrants to migrate here for priviledges they didn't endure in thier native homeland. The U.S democracy is corrupted, easily influenced by lobbies, and run by idiots who only listen to people who have money and not the general public. Representatives are suppose to recipricate to the senate how we feel, but they don't. The government should listen more to the younger voices in society that is why there has been a dramatic decrease in voting turnouts since the Vietnam War because we feel the goverment doesn't listen to us. We are the educated ones that hold the future not the obsolete generations. We criticize the government because they lack the initiative to hear what we have to say. I'm an honors student at my university, who belongs to the honors society. Illegals raise our taxes which is unfair and unjust to Americans they should be sent a one way ticket to deportation.

Dear supporters and non-supporters:

I grew up in this country and never been home in 10 years. I came to this country to excape from a broken family and did not know the challenges I am facing right now. It's really sad because people can hardly understand our situation and the pain and suffering we are going through.

DREAM act will live up to its name. God bless those who care about children with broken hearts and no where to go.

I'm back. Well, I did a little research while I was away. There are approximately 9 million undocumented migrant workers in the United States, this I got from the immigration and naturalization website. I was looking at one of my moms old check stubs when she worked as an undocumented immigrant in a clothing factory. She had an average of $100.00 dollars taken from her check every month that she never got, and never will get back. That's $12,000,000,000 for all the workers in one year, I'm sure the US wouldn't be willing to part with that money. About the recent Wal-Mart scandal, in which about 150 were deported, that is only 150 out of 9 million. That must have been some type of scam to make people think that they are getting rid of illegals, when in reality they're increasing no matter what. PJ I love your enthusiasm if more people were as good hearted as you people would stop taking advantage of us. I'm in the same situation as you, hoping that this DREAM Act is passed and that justice is served because I personally have worked my butt off in school doing better that most citizens in my high school, and just for that I think I deserve a little respect. I'm doing my part, I'm writing to the president and to our governor in New Mexico. Terry I apologize for my last posting, once again sometimes I feel very frustrated and write whatever comes to my mind, I understand you are entitled to your opinion, but do understand that it was not my fault I was brought to this country illegaly, my mom is a single parent who in our own country was not given a chance to give us a chance to live a decent life. I have not been back to Mexico in 8 years I cannot identify with people overthere any more, I consider myself an American, there might not be any documents to prove it, but I have the spirit. I do volunteer work in my community, I tutor elementary school kids,among other things, I thik I have given more than enough back to this country compared to what it has given me. There was a recent murder in my town of a Native American girl, whom happened to be my friend, she was murdered by a citizen, you cannot say that because I'm here illegally it is my fault that this girl was murdered. Migration of all animals, birds, butterflies, humans, etc. is natural process, it will keep happening wether you like it or not. I know plenty of powerful people in my community who would be more than happy to help me, knowing that I'm undocumented. So you see, not all Americans think like you, so when you say "WE" you are simply referring to your self. PJ keep it up, this country needs more people like us. Terry once again I'm sorry for what I said, but certainly not sorry for being here illegaly or going to college, which by the way I'm paying for out of my own pocket. Every American has the potential to do anything they want, they have a choice, I don't force the bong into people's mouth, they do it themselves knowing the risks that their action might bring. Every coutry has drug problems regardless of migration or not.

Terry, what happened man? I leave for a few days, and suddenly you have to write a book? Wow man. you a sure full of something. Well I would like to say that the answer I was expecting from you,in my last posting, was exactly what I got. your answer sounds exactly like the ones I have heard before and read in books,for a solution that would only work in fantacy world. I believe that if all that was needed for this to work where to be in place, this would be a trully good solution for this issue. Unfurtunately if we were to be the goverment, it would take us years and years to even come close to this perfect solution. Now we have to think about the present and the future. We cannot put peoples lives on hold for a simple legal-illegal debate. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with, with liberty and justice for all. I trully believe that The dream act is a good start, but not the last step in the ladder. for now all I can do is, to do my part to make sure the dream act is a success and that all its obstacles dealt with.
I e mail, phone and write letters to the apropriate goverment authorities, and I would also apreciate your support to help the prompt and succesful passage into law of the dream act.
If you sympathize, dont sit there and hope that things work out for your life to have a happy ending. You have power, even if you are clasiffied as an Illegal like me. But you have to use it, don't wait for others to solve your problems. You can start by using the following
contact info:
president@whitehouse.gov
White house phone # 1-202-456-1414
1-800-321-8268
fax 1-202-456-6279
Capitol phone # 1-202-224-3121
Congress 1-888-355-3588
You can also find the apropriate numbers to your senators, use this thingie they call the "INTERNET". For now all that I can say is STAY STRONG, SEE YOU AT THE TOP, and thats whats up.

I would like to send this note to terry and everyone else, even though i think this person just left this site...

Me and my parents were born in India. We are of Portuguese origin and are Roman Catholic. Living in India wasn't exactly ideal for me, since once people found out I was both, I lost a lot of friends in school and all around. The language was hard for me to pick up, and I never did. My parents could forsee that I would probably have no future there and tried to get citizenship, but American immigration does have quotas on how many people can legally migrate from certain countries. We couldn't claim religious proscecution because there was no real proof that our faith or our lives were in danger. We came here when I was 10 in 1989. My father worked in the airlines and we were well off, financially, so we traveled a lot. We came here on a visiting visa and I guess they decided to overstay it, and permanently live here. They apparenly tried to get a lawyer to help them with establishing their citizenship, but he was a good-for-nothing and took them for a few grand(if I remember correctly). Unfortunately, I think they gave up after that. Life continued for me here. Family life was pretty bad for me, and I had to leave the house with some possessions when I was 20. Now I am 23 and for the last 3 years, I have been searching for a way to become a citizen. I *am* married to a U.S. citizen at the moment, but I would prefer not to get my citizenship through him, because I can't believe that's my only option. This dream act, would enable me to get my citizenship which I believe is rightfully mine. I have only spoken english my whole entire life, and I am very intelligent, and did well in high school, but not in college, since i had to leave in the middle. Yet I can't go to school because I can't afford it, without financial aid. It makes me so angry when I see other ppl/kids my age who are citizens, with all the support in the world, wasting their time and life, when I have so much to offer, and I can't do anything just because I don't have the proper documentation.

my point: It doesn't always work to come here legally. I do blame my parents for not working on this issue harder, but I thank them for getting me in here one way or the other, for I would have never been the person I am today.
I speak perfect english, withou an accent. I have never identified with being Indian, even when I lived there, and I guess I act nothing like the typical stereotype.

my second point: I haven't heard much about the dream act yet, and I still do not know whether it's been approved or not, but I pray that it will, because it will give me the chance to go to school and get my late start in life....

There is no logical reason to vote against the Dream Act. How can you tell a person that the country he has been living in for the majority of his life to pack up and leave? I know a kid who has been here since he was 6, now he is 19. He only knows one language, English. His first girlfriend was white, all his friends are white, and the American culture is the only one he knows. His favorite teams are the Atlanta Braves and Georgia Bulldogs. Since he is illegal, his parents are forking out $10,000 dollars a year for him to attend UGA. He currently is on the Presidents Honor Roll at the University. Now according to Terry, all this is irrelevant. Forget this kid

Efrain, PJ,and all the rest. I have enjoyed our dialogue. I am new to this medium, and have been having a blast debating with you all. Unfortunately, my wife has reminded me that I promised her that I would finish writing my book, before our first child is born in May. I am on chapter four, and hope to finish nine more to complete it.I have yet to settle on a title, but I will post it on this blog site when I do. Then you will be able to check it out, if I am lucky enough to get it published. In order to keep my promise to my better half, I must say goodbye to all of you for now. Before I sign off, remember this; strong fences, make good neighbors.

PJ, you requested a solution, and that it be detailed. I am happy to oblige. Keep in mind, I will be keeping this simple and general.Also remember, that this plan applies to ALL ILLEGAL immigrants,whether they come from Mexico, England, Canada, or Mars.First, the Legal immigration process, should be streamlined. All steps should be taken to illiminate beurocracy.As now, immigration should be open to ALL people.With the new technology available today,checking the criminal backgound of a prospective citizen, should be much easier, and faster.Second,there should be more pressure put on underdeveloped countries, to adopt a more democratic and prosperous system of government. If the U.N. were worth a damn, they would be able to assist in this process. They would hold the leaders of these counties accountable for the human rights abuses, and poverty of their people. They would be quicker to help out, when America tries to free an oppressed people.This in turn, would make life better, for people in their own homeland, elliminating their desire to migrate anywhere.Third,America needs to strenthen her borders. Because of the massive invasion of ILLEGAL immigrants from Mexico,we need make it harder for ILLEGALS to cross the border.Since ILLEGALS cross the border between Mexico and the US so often,we will need to erect a large wall between the two countries. This will force someone who wants to cross the border, to enter through a checkpoint. Here, a ligitimate Mexican immigrant will start the LEGAL immigration process. He will be checked for various deseases, and have a basic criminal background check. At this point he will given the same opportunities that every other LEGAL immigrant in history has enjoyed. He will also be welcomed by people like me.He will not need to risk heat exposure, or dehydration to come here. He will just go to one of many immigration checkpoints, found along the border. Construction of this wall/immigation complex can be a joint effort, between American and Mexican workers. The Bracero progam can be instituted for it's construction,which would also help your case to the IMMIGRATION deptartment. Forth,ILLEGALS must be deported, as soon as it is discovered that they are here ILLEGALLY. This will discourage further attempts to buck the system, that so many others have been able to go through. The Lee Boyd Malvos of the world, will need to up their game, before they try to snipe innocent people in America(Mr. Malvo was here ILLEGALLY).Since Americans are not cold or heartless in general, special exceptions can be made. If you are not found to have a criminal record,your case can be reviewed by the Immigration Dept., prior to deportation. If you can show that you are a decent person, who just wants to be an American citizen, and you agree to learn English and proceed with proper immigration policy, they will probably cut you a break. This will give ILLEGALS already here, a second chance, to help their families become LEGAL American citizens. I still believe that they should be sent back to square one immidiatly, but we are not without mercy.Fifth, all ILLEGAL immigrants, currently residing in our judicial system, will be handed over to the Authorities of their home country. We are well stocked with thieves and rapists already. Why would we waste valuable prison space, on someone who shouldn't be here to begin with. Sixth, any American employer, who is caught hiring ILLEGALS, must suffer servere penalties. They are breaking a whole host of labor and tax revenue laws, so they must be held accountable. This will level the playing field for any buisness owner who obeys the law. It will also raise the bar for hiring standards, as well as wages. If employers have no other option, than to hire LEGAL immigrants, it will motivate people to come here LEGALLY.If these concepts seem simplistic, it's only because it is, just that simple.The liberal approach to immigration, only works in a society where there are no criminals, no desease, and jobs grow up from the ground, like weeds. I know of no country on earth like that. Where do American criminals try to go, when they are running from the law? Mexico. Why would anyone believe, that criminals from other countries, wouldn't come here?If you lived in Mexico, and you saw a crowd of people jumping over the border into your country, wouldn't you like to know, if they are carrying tuberculosis? Wouldn't you like to know if they are child molesters?Come on people,THINK!!!!

Maria, did I read correctly? Are you comparing tourism, to criminal activity? How can you abuse the value of a dollar? Are you abusing the value of a dollar, when you buy something on sale, or find a better deal on something?Would you prefer that America spent it's money elswhere?What are they teaching you kids today?Please explain these concepts in ,more detail. Tell me how you would come into someone's store, and demand to pay full price, during a half price sale.

Efrain, I don't recall saying anything about preferences. I did not pick lettuce when I was younger, I did wash dishes and bus tables at age 15 though. I have the paycheck stubs, and a hot oil scar on my leg to prove it. If this job had not been available, I would have most likely ended up begging my parents for money, because as we all know, jobs are not growing on trees, when you are 15. I hated the job, I worked very hard, and I only made about $3.25 an hour, before taxes. I did save enough to buy a 1974 Chevy Vega. I did this on my own, without help from my parents. It was valuable lesson that still helps me today, but trust me, it was not my preference, it was my responsibility. I was lucky to have that job. Now, this same restaurant hires ILLEGALS. I have a strong work ethic now, and I attribute it to my crappy first job. Some of the kids I grew up with, couldn't find a crappy job, and ended up sponging off their parents, some of them still live with their parents. Today, the job market is even thinner, according to everything I here from the Democrats and Liberals.I thought that I had mentioned this earlier. As for why I am not picking lettuce, I assumed that you had understood, that I am older now, and have worked my way up in the job market. A long time has passed since my days of washing dishes. Thanks to the experience though, I am still driven to go further.I am speaking in general terms, when I say "picking lettuce". I do this to keep the conversation moving, in stead of listing all the hard jobs at once. Evidence that is true, can not be outdated. My statements are true, because I was there. An old fact, is still a fact. I presented something that happened to me, as a POSSIBLE negative effect of ILLEGAL immigration. I am still waiting for a reasonble argument against this theory. Yes, ultimately, we are responsible for our own actions. I have used the same argument to arguement against ILLEGAL immigration for years. However, if an average 15-17 year old kid, does not have access to a job, what will he usually do? I don't remember you mentioning your age, so I will assume that you may know someone in this situation. I know many kids in this situation, I usually see them hanging out in the parking lot, getting high. Just for the record, these are not MY dirty habits.If you are speaking figuratively about American culture,don't you mean, OUR dirty habits?Try again.

You are making excuses for all your dirty habits. You have not provided any single piece of evidence for your argument all you are using is circumstancila evidence that is totally outdated. You are blaming the things Americans do on a group of people that have no fault. Give me a Year in which an American prefered to pick a lettuce from a field than to do a job that didn't require hard work. Plus you didn't answer my question, Why aren't you picking lettuces? Repeat 100 times: ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY AND THE GOVERNMET KNOWS IT. If all your arguments were true that you better thank every single illegal in the country for each American that has a carrer. If illegal immigration was so bad then the government would have done something to terminate it. You have not told me how any of my arguments are untrue, and before you say anything else, tell your comments to someone who cares because I'm not going to waste my time with someone as ignorant as you.

Maria, the last time I checked, California was in America. PJ, the last time I checked, Rosa Parks was a LEGAL American citizen, as were the other examples you cited. Good to see that you may be starting to get my point, you are almost there. Mike, good point. Too all of you, I am going to have to repeat myself again, WE DO NOT WANT IMMIGRANTS TO STAY OUT, WE JUST WANT THEM TO COME IN THE FRONT DOOR. By your logic, when someone knocks on your door, you would not ask them who they are. Actually, by your logic, I can assume you have no door at all. If this is true, tell me where you live. Your logic only makes sense, if immigrants announce themselves as criminals or health risks when you meet them. You seem to think that ALL immigrants are good people. History does not bare this out. I have never suggested that there are no American criminals or Health risks, that would be silly. I don't understand why anyone would think that means we should want more. If you are not a criminal, or a health risk, WELCOME TO AMERICA. We just want to check you out before you come here. Do you not get checked out before you get on a plane? They even have metal detectors at the Library. By your theories, we should just assume that everyone is a law abiding, decent person, and let them on the plane UNCHECKED. Have you ever heard the phrase"Er on the side of caution"?These same principals STILL apply to immigration. This is what is commonly known as COMMON SENSE. Americans are not assuming, that all immigrants are bad, we just can't tell by looking at you. Criminals do not all dress alike, or look alike. The same can be said for someone carrying tuberculosis.I am not using ILLEGAL immigration as an excuse for the bad habits of Americans, but if you remember the history of American culture, the "dirty jobs" were done by American kids at one time. Now, thanks to UNCHECKED ILLEGAL immigration, "dirty jobs" are paying record low wages. It is no longer profitable for a teenager to work in the fields. He has little reason to get job that requires manual labor. This eventually has a drastic effect on the work ethic of young people. Again, I do not want to stop immigration, I want to stop ILLEGAL immigration. I have yet to here why this is asking too much. I have yet to here why this does not make sense. Yes, it is VERY simplistic. Why are you people not getting it? Maria, forgive me for botching the word "Bracero". It was a good program, it was good for Mexicans, as well as Americans. Again, all of you, repeat 100 times, LEGAL immigration is good, ILLEGAL immigration is bad.

Terry, unfortunately I have not the time to spend now. I have to work hard for little money, unlike American ILLEGAL immigrants in Mexico, who take over the Baja California beach as we are writing, abusing the high value of the dollar.
By the way, it's Bracero program.

Well by the way, Happy Halloween to you all, supporters and non supporters. I have posted my opinion in here and every one is free to agree or diagree. As for me, I'll stick to my point of this not being a simple problem of people obeying a law in order to beeter themselves. Even American women once had to rise up to stop their oppressors, their own fathers and husbands, Because a woman was not worthy of having her own mind and could not even vote, they were but a possesion. They were needed, yet they did not matter. Rosa Parks back in the days decided not to obey a rule because no matter how people in those days felt, that rule was completely wrong and immoral. People like her decided to rise and stop their opression. It was a long and painful process, I can only imagine. Thanks to people like her, the African American community was able to take their part in society as best each individual saw fit. Now he have black people in goverment in all sorts of important decicion making positions. I'm pretty sure it wont be long before we see a black man or woman run for president. My point again is that each society evolves, our society is evolving and wheater people like it or not the latino community is a major part of this present society. We too were brough here as kids without any knowledge of politics or immigration laws. Many were not even old enough to go to school yet. Now we are all old enough to know whats happening and to realize that, there is something needed to end the opression of the latino community. There will always be those who oppose our rise from oppression. There will be those who fear for their jobs or for any other excuse for fear they might have. It too happened when The Irish were migrating into the US and then when African American were fighting for their freedom. Regardeless of any who opposed and used violence to stop this evolution from happening, it still took place and no, it was not the doom of the country. Well now here we are again, at another important time in history, where history is being made. The sircustances are in every occasion different, but the principles have always been the same, People are fighting for their simple "human right to choose" the "dream act" is but mearly a step to climb in this huge stairs towards the new Americas. The situation is that we are already here, weather it might be for a concisious decicion to survive or for not knwoing any better as a kid, but we are not going any where, this is now home like it once was before our lands were sold by our goverment to the US for personal profit. This is our only home and no one will put up with rejection at their own home no matter what race you are. If opposing my freedom is what makes you feel better about your self, then hit me with the best you got. "Evil triumphs when good people do nothing" or maybe you, who opposes me, have a better solution. Please let me know and take all the time you want to think about it, I'll be back next week. Oh and in your solution please be detailed and don't forget to include your solutions impact in our society. I can't wait to read this.

I am glad that the committee passed the bill with an amended version. The original version went too far...hope this bill will pass next year...

Gee...lets just all pick which laws we want to obey! If enough of us start robbing banks maybe we could just email the note and have them just deposit it our accounts for us.

Terry, your views are just too simplistic. You make it sound as if the illegal community is so tiny that throwing them out would be easy, fast, and effective. There are MILLIONS of illegal immigrants in the United States, most of which do "the dirty work." You can not tell me that you being an American citizen having all the benefits and oportunities you have would go pick lettuce in a field. You say young kids should do it, what about yourself, I would like to see picking heads of lettuce on a field under the scorching sun. The American government knows that if they decide to throw every single illegal out of the country it would cost them, therefore it would cost you and it would probably be an Incredible amount of money. Like I said on one of my last essays an American citizen did the Oklahoma bombing, not an immigrant either legal or illegal. Americans have deseases, you can not tell me that every single virus or bacteria that exist in this country is brought by an illegal immigrant because to be honest that is a very ignorant thing to say. I too disagree with Carmen's approach to this conversation because it just does not make sense, but I do understand her anger. Like I told you before, you can't blame an illegal immigrant because some spoiled brat decides to get high. They're not working toward their college tuition because they don't feel like it. Yes, a person who decides to jump the fence makes a concious decition, but so does the kid that decides to get high and bother you. People have their own mind to do and say what they want. I look at my local newspaper every week, and every week I see a couple of hundred jobs that nobody takes, where are the citizens that should be filling those positions? Unemployment, at least in this country is not due to the fact there is no jobs, its because people are too lazy to get off their butts and do something. Like I said your views are too simplistic, you fail to realize that this country is not a roller coaster, the economy is way too complicated. If the economy was so perfect there wouldn't be recessions every so often. And don't say that illegals cause recessions because I've taken a few economics courses and there is a little something called the "Business Cycle," which I'll assume you've heard of.

PJ, laws are made by men. They are made for the purpose of protecting the masses. These laws are in place to protect us all. They are in place to help you and I both. We are not talking about a benign phrase in a pledge. We are talking about the future of our country. Your most recent essay was well worded, but lacked a logical argument against my concepts. Our constitution is fexible, it was designed to be. This does not mean that it was designed to be changed at any popular whim, of the people. This is why we have a check and balance system. As this subject has shown, there are a lot of people out there who cannot see the forest for the trees. They only see the immidiate problem. Thier heart is in the right place, but their head is out the window.These same people, are prone to throwing away common sense, for the sake of immidiate feelgoodism, not realizing that more damage is done to everyone down the road. Our constitution was designed to protect everyone from people like this. Doing the right thing, is not always fun, easy, or politically correct, but it is always neccessary. Reread my comments, and try to find where I am wrong. Good Luck!

Let destiny take its course, let the men make the law, not the law make the men. The laws are made to govern the people, to keep a prosperous ans steady society. Many laws from the constitution made by the founding fathers have, with the passing of time, been questioned. As far as, what they mean and how we, as a society interpret them. Many laws have changed some have been made to be stronger laws. One example of this is the simple phrase thats was added to the pledge of alligence some time back "one nation under god". Now that very same phrase is is being debated at the supreme court. It might go away or it might very well stay and be stronger than ever. My point is that laws are not eternal, and they too can be changed to fit every society as this society evolves. What we are debating here is simply a law, a law that was created by men, and a law that will soon be changed by men as well. Like it or not its in every ones best interest for this to happen. As for citizens of the US doing the same work that an illegal worker does, ha, ha, that will happen, when pigs learn to fly.
p.s. when I say men I am refering to the human race in general, men adn women.

Carmen, I doubt that the Europeans "invented" the deseases thet they brought with them to America. If you remember your biology, most deseases occur when forign substances are introduced to a host which has no defense against it. It is very reasonable to assume, that these deseases began, due to the influx of people from all over the world, who immigrated UNCHECKED, to Europe.As Yasi said earlier, those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it. Our current immigration policy is very repetitive. Is it really so unreasonable to request immigrants to be checked out, before they come here? Have we completely eliminated common sense?

Carmen, if you had taken the time to read one of my earlier comments, you have read how I am certain, that if Native Americans were more advanced at the time, they would definatly demanded us to be checked for criminal background as well as desease. You are refering to a time when people didn't even know what a germ was. The concept of criminal records, had not even been heard of. Your assertion makes no sense. What disgusting habits are you refering to? Do you mean; sanitation, modern medicine, technology, commerce, religious freedom, human rights? Again, you are making little sense. I will have to assume, that you are using a computer to communicte with me, not smoke signals. I smell hipocracy. If you read your history, you will learn that indian tibes drew first blood. You must realize, these people were savages, they had no concept of diplomacy. Calling me an idiot, or an asshole, does not demonstrate how I am wrong about anything. It only demonsrates your inability to see the logic in my argument. It also shows in living color, your lack of debating skills.You may want to check into anger mangement. Efrain, glad to here from you again. If I am to beleive the cries of the liberal media, we have a major unemployment problem in the US. This would sink the concept of there being more jobs, than people to work them. As someone works in the real world every day, I have first hand experience with current employment practices. I see with my own eyes, the bus loads of ILLEGAL immigrants building the housing developments. Where are the young American teenagers, who used to fill these jobs? They are at home, sponging off Mom and Dad. Why are they not working to earn college tuition, instead of sitting on the couch, smoking a bowl? What effect will a poor work ethic, have on these people in the future? These are the kids, that I will be dealing with when I get old. They will be the slackers that my kids will need to deal with as they get older.I did not create this reality, but I do have to live with the consequences. As for the September 11 terrorists, until the day that people walk into our country, with labels on their forheads that mark them as a security, or health threats, we still have no choice but to demand a little cooperation. After all, what are we, savages?I can blame the people for their actions. They were not drug to the border, and thrown over the fence. At some point, they made a conscious decision to break the law. If it can be proven to me, that there is no LEGAL means of migrating to AMERICA, I will concede. Until then, I must go on.

this is to Terry. You are such an ignorant idiot when u say that the illegals are the ones that bring diseases with them when your dirty white european ancestors were the ones who invented the deseases that exist today thanks to their dirty discusting habits and who knows with what the hell they were having sex with to invent those disgusting veneral diseases. You dum idiot go back to europe asshole were u belong and u and ur people should have never crossed the ocean to come spread deseases and kill the native people of the country.
VIVA MEXICO CABRON!!!!

All of the 9/11 terrorist were given student visas, but does that mean that every single student whos is given a Visa is going the same thing? Oviously not, however Bush's administration seems to think so. You say that illegals take jobs away from citizens or legals, when in reality there are more jobs than people to work them. Wether you like it or not Illegals keep a balnace in this country that would be disrrupted even if they were legalized. I'm not saying that Illegal immigration is good because I do agree that it is not, but what you seem to ignore is that it is not the person's fault that they are not legalized because the do not fit one of the chriteria the government demands. I wish the government felt the way you do about making it easier for illegals to become legal, but I doubt it ever will. you cna't blame the people for everything the government does. It's like blaming any American for dropping the atomic bomb on Heroshima. I know my example is a little extreme but I think it makes the point. Can you honestly tell me that if the house of an illegal is burning you would rather let them burn than for the fire dept. to show up. If you would than I don't know what to tell you. Like I said a lot of these people loose a considerable amount of money every time they get a paycheck, which I think more than pays for the services they utilize. Like I said in my last response the governmet keeps their money and nobody knows what happens to it. As for the reason why your brother-in-law cannot find a good construction jod must be because he's not looking hard enough, you cannot blame a large population for the misfortune of a single induvidual. The US wether you like it or not is a nation that was formed by legal and illegal immigration, and who knows maybe its greatness is due to such an approach. The point I'm trying to get across is that even illegals deserve a chance to achieve the American dream, but the government doesn't let them. Every race, ethnicity, social status, and even idivual families have their bad and their good people, not just the illegal community.

I almost forgot, during the work stoppage, maybe my brother in law will stop calling me to complain about the construction jobs that he can't seem to find anymore. He has kids too. NO you should not all just go away, unless your ILLEGAL. If you aren't ILLEGAL, WELCOME TO AMERICA!

PJ, you seem to missing the point. If 10,000,000 people start robbing banks, that does not mean that robbing banks is a good thing. By immigrating to America ILLEGALLY, you are holding YOURSELF back. YOU are limiting the ability of you and your family both to succeed. This is one of the reasons why the only jobs available to ILLEGALS are medial, hard labor jobs. If there were to be a work stoppage, it would force employers to hire LEGAL citizens. Trust me, we wouldn't fall apart. Hopefully, the recent Wal-Mart scandal will wake up those who employ ILLEGALS. I don't know if you have noticed, but the work ethic among the youth in America has gone into the toilet in recent years. We have gotten very soft. Could there be a connection between harder jobs being given away to people who break the law, and the rise in teenage appathy? Not that I am an old man, but when I was 15, I was a dishwasher in a crappy restaurant. I worked long hours for little money. That experience made me a stronger and more ambitious person. If I were 15 today, this same job would probably not be available. I may have to mooch off of my Mom and Dad, as Yasi suggested earlier. This most likely would turn me into a lazy, pot smoking, slacker. Please, I beg of you, let me know how I can help you with your work stoppage. It may be the only way to save our country. Do you see now, how liberalism usually turns around and bites you in the ass? LEGAL immigrants are morally and rightly entitled to all the benefits and help, that America has to offer. This makes climbing the ladder much easier. Why would you do it any other way? As for what people like me will do during the work stoppage, after I finish dancing, I will go to a restaurant, and have a friendly conversation with the bussboy. I will finally be able to do that, because he will probably speak English. Perhaps I will make a new friend. Afterwards, I will go home, without having to worry about the neigborhood punks spaypainting my wall, because they will be asleep, preparing for a long day in the lettuce fields.

Well I guess since the key word here is Illegal, I guess "we should all just go away", all have to say to that is be careful what you wish for. There are several groups of Latino Activist organizeing a national work stoppage for all immigrant workers and we are going to need to be united as the latino community that we are, as we have never been before. Im pretty sure, if you are reading this, that you have been at hotels, restaurants, gas stations, fast food joints, you've walked by a construction site, etc, etc, If you have, you can then realize that there is no one place that is not being worked by the latino community and mostly immigrant workers. I can't wait to see what will happen when the work stoppage begins and what will all the people like Terry do when none of their sevices are taken care of, maybe then after so many millions of dollars are lost in revenue, you would be able to see this not as a legal-illegal issue but as a process of evolution for our modern society. For all of you who are so motivated by the Dream Act and are posting comments of support don't stop there, get involed with your community and organize, It won't be long before your actual help will be needed to make a difference with the decicion makers at the white house, by arguing with people like Terry we are really not being productive, do you think he can make a differnce? You can't stop the innevitable! Soon we will gain millions of more latino residents and soon after that, Latino citizens. It will no longer be a matter of who has got the most power, because the power comes from the people, the people with the ability to vote and the avility to use it. Our people will no longer be used for bussing tables, washing dishes, making food, parking cars or building houses, instead we will be a major part of running the country. OR MAYBE THATS WHAT THEY ARE ALL AFRAID OF?

Efrain, Yes, everyone who gets on the rollercoaster pays tax, unless they crawl under the fence and sneak on, then they don't pay anything, but the other riders have to. Again you are not seeing the difference between ILLEGAL and LEGAL immigration. They are NOT the same. If a person wants to immigrate to America, why would they not do it LEGALLY. There is nothing stopping them. People have been coming here LEGALLY for many years. We have political asylum policies, as well as religious sanctuary policies, just in case you need to leave your homeland in a hurry. Why would anyone not use these methods? Why would a parent put their child at such unneccesary risk? I also do not suggest that our immigration policies couldn't use a little tweaking, I do agree that it is more complicated that it needs to be.As for benefits, I suggest you look at our healthcare system. If an ILLEGAL calls an ambulance, does one not come? It is a federal law that guarantees the right to emergency healthcare. It's not all about taxes, there are also insurance premiums to consider, both health and automobile. Who pays for an accident, that an ILLEGAL immigrant has? When an ILLEGAL goes to the hospital, who pays for that? If an ILLEGAL calls the police, do they not come? If their house catches fire, does a firetruck not show up? What about roads, bridges, as well as any other public infrastructure. Who pays for all of this? Mostly LEGAL citizens. To answer EJ's question of what to do with children of ILLEGALS already here, we would odviously have to make exceptions in these cases. That being said, if ILLEGALS were denied such easy access to our borders in the first place, maybe they would be less likely to use pregnancy as a ploy to buck the system. As for Yasi's comments, I would like a new car, but I cannot afford one yet. Why don't you buy me one? You made the comment that I was passing judgment, and that I did not have my facts straight, but you did not mention what judgment I had passed, or what fact I had bent. Since we are talking about passing judgements, what's all this talk about mooching, and sitting behind desks? PJ, I read your comments, and was quite impressed. You do make a good argument for the lack of compassion that our government can appear to have. When I am King, I will revamp our policies, to make immigration an easier process for all, but you will still need a basic check for deseases and criminal history. Until that day, we cannot afford to assume that if you are here ILLEGALLY, you are a decent person. We have no choice but to er in the side of caution. After all, good or bad, your first move, was to break in. If someone breaks into my house, I grab the gun, not the welcome mat. I cannot risk the safety of my family, in the name of feelgoodism. This principal applies to our nation as well. Like it or not, there are criminals in every country, and deseases know no border. In the past few years tuberculosis has made a comeback that has been linked directly to ILLEGAL immigration. One of the two DC snipers, was an ILLEGAL immigrant. Some of the 9/11 terrorists were also here ILLEGALLY. Until we elliminate crime around the world, we have no choice but to demand a little cooperation. I am not a criminal, but I still get checked when I go to the airport. Efrain, I am glad to see that we have found a more common ground on which to communicate. You seem much more reasonable today. I have bad days too. I look forward to your reply.

^Continued^
Do you think the Alien sedition acts were so great? Intellegence is not so much the question, are you willing to let a young peson loose their life just because you think they should be deported. Don't forget that everyone who gets on the roller coaster has to pay tax. College acceptance is based on merritt not on wether you pay taxes or not. Can you honestly blame a parent for trying to put some food in their child's belly so that they won't starve. Tell me that if you had a child (or if you do) you wouldn't do whatever you could to give this child a chance to live in this dangerous world. No matter how much I read your response I can not understand why you have this mentality. People don't legalize their situation because the country doesn't let them. It's not because they are lazy or trying to evade taxes. I hope you lighten up and realize that immigrants are more of an asset than a liability.

Dear Terry. I did not mean to insult you with my message as I suppose I did. I'm the son of Mexican immigrants and I can honestly tell you that going through the legalities that the immigration and naturalization service imposes makes it impossible for most of these people to fix their status in this country without the risk of being deported. I think it's unfair to blame a person for the actions of their governments. I wish Mexico was as stable and provided for its citizens like the US does, however, it just does not have the resources to do so. We are not affraid to learn english, many illegals work 13, 14 hour days to try and keep their families alive. You say that illegal immigration is bad because it takes away your tax money, well I also do my own research. All of the illegal immigrants that work in the United States get money taken away from their pay checks. They do not get a tax return at the end of the year, guess what happens? The government keeps that money. What happens to it? Well nobody knows nor cares to find out. Illegals don't get government founded benefits such as Medicaid or Medicare, they can't get college grants, loans, or scholarships for college. They cannot own land so they can't pay property taxes. Please give me an example in which an illegal immigrant has taken tax money away from you? I do apologize for my last posting, but please understand that what you are saying is very unfair and unjustified. Believe it or not people who have lived in the US and return to Mexico are discriminated against. The disease part was one that I particularily found irrelvant. When I went into school the school didn't just ask, they demanded my Immunization records as well as Medical history, and I had the Tuberculosis shot in Mexico. i don't know where you heard about illegals getting tax benifits because they don't, they work the jobs that no middle class American would work. It is proven that if every single illegal were to flee the country it would fall appart

To whom it may concern: I was the age of 10 when my parents decided to start a new life up north. I went to the 6th grade and from then up to graduading from H.S. If I would have known that I was going to a place where I would be regarded as if I was a pest I would have honestly never came here, but how was I supposed to know. I was only to happy to know that I was going to get to eat my three meals a day, instead of coffee in the morning and then beans and rice in the evening. Yes this is a great country with a lot of opportunities, it has an immigration policy like any other does I suppose but if you believe that all you have to do to come to this country is get in line you couldnt be more wrong. Where I come from to be able to apply to come into the US you need to have money in the bank, own land and have relatives in the us who are citizens or recidents. That sounds reasonable I suppose, but tell that to the people who bearly have money to buy food,who have to work two days to be able to afford a CD, who don't own a home nor have any relatives in the us. Tell them to sit there and wait and see their kids starve and put your self in their shoes. You'll then realize that you re dealing with human lives and to follow this particular immigration law is not nearly as important as putting food at your kids tables. I honestly can't understand why at this day and age, people are still evil and condemn others for trying to survive. I can name you hundreds of persons who are here illegally, and in their pay check they pay social security, state tax, federal tax, medicare and SDI do you think their are saving that for when they need to retire or to claim that in their income tax at the end of the year? Think about it, do they not pay thier car registration tax when they buy a car? And then loose their car because they get pulled over and are found to be driving without a licence or do you think they are able to get their cars back? Do they not pay sales taxes when they shop for food? My people are only too happy to pay that price, as long as they know that no matter how bad it is, its still better than going back to their homeland. We as a society need to realiaze what is more important here, our laws or peoples lives?

Terry, yes, you are correct, all illegal immigration is bad, and legal immigration is good. There's your answer, I do agree with you on that. Yes, all illegals don't pay all the taxes they should, but we also know that the U.S. is making a lot of money on unclaimed income taxes every year. Now answer this for me. What would you suggest we can do about all those kids that are illegal, speak only English, have no where to go, and do not know where they were born?(put yourself in their place) I understand what you are saying, but lets be honest. Can you honestly tell me that you dont care and that you would not help those illegal immigrants(kids) who have no where to go? I had to wait in line to get my documentation, and it would of pissed me off if I got skipped, but I am willing to lend a helping hand, even if it means getting skipped. Especially when it comes to kids' futures. All kids, not just illegals.

These students who will be able to go to college if the Dream Act is passed deserve the opportunity. These are kids who could not afford to pay any kind of tuition, these are kids whose families could hardly afford the bare necessities. How could you compare them to American citizens, they will not be paying less, you are wrong!!!! They will be paying THE SAME!!! I am one of those kids who had to pay $34,000 a year to go to college while one of those AMERICAN CITIZENS was only paying $13,000. Before you start passing judgement on something you know nothing about, get your facts straight. Again these kids will not be paying less but just the Same, with no financial aid. At least your american citizens can apply for scholarships and aid these immigrants will have to work hard to put themselves through college, something that American young people know nothing about, they are used to mooching off of mom and dad. Have you forgotten that your AMERICA was founded by immigrants and they do your dirty work. they earn a living the hard way not by sitting in a nice desk all day. Remember those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Maria,Maria,Maria, Yes, my argument is simplistic, this is not difficult at all to understand, if you take the time. Cheap labor is not an issue with me, because I would support an immigrant labor program such as the Brosero Program that we used to have here. The concept of allowing illegal activity, just because the rest of the world might do it, is very anarchistic. As Americans, I hope we never get to a point where we do harmful things, just so others may like us. Sometimes, doing the right thing, is not the cool, or popular thing to do. Again, I must repeat myself, I am not suggesting that we bar the door to ALL immigrants, just the ones who ignore our immigration process, and break the law. Why is this so complicated, am I not typing clear enough? I also never implied that we should bar the door to poor people. All are welcome here, just let us know that you are not a criminal or a health risk. You did not answer the original question; Is this so much to ask? I would be willing to bet that my own father's German ancestors came here without a penny in their pockets, but I know for a fact, that they came here through Ellis Island, New York. They were checked for deseases, and had as much background check as the time would allow. If you think I am suggeting that poor people are not welcome, then you are assuming that I am a hypocryte. I am not. We are a soverign nation, we are not beholden to any other nations laws. Nor should we ever be. The concept of globalism is a pipe dream that will only serve to weaken or destroy our constitution. When that happens, it's all over for everybody. I am afraid that you too must repeat 100 times,ILLEGAL immigration is bad, LEGAL immigration is good. You didn't demonstrate why the rollercoaster analogy does not apply, you only dismissed it. Rollercoasters can be agrivating as well as enjoyable. Were you never a kid? As for past civilizations, Indians used to wipe their asses with leaves, that doesn't make it a good idea now. Next.

This message is for Efrain. Rather than stoop to the level of insulting you, as you have me, I will just point out the flaws in your argument in a civilized manner. I am of native American heritage, on my mother's side. I can assure you, if native americans would have been far enough ahead in our cultural development, we would have demanded some sort of immigration control. We have long since stopped living in the past. Today is what matters. By your theory, since we used to live in caves, we should do the same today. We learn by our mistakes, and we evolve, and are the better for it. Call it natural selection, call it evolution, or call it survival of the fittest. Whenever two cultures collide, at the end of the day, only one will come out on top. America is an exception. We are made of all cultures. We welcome everyone. That is how it should be. That being said, no matter where your parents came from, if you are an American citzen, you are entitled to basic protection from the government. Unlike my ancestors, if you want to start a new life in this country, we won't sneek into your cabin and put a tomahawk between your eyes. We will welcome you with open arms.In my essay, I never once questioned the intelligence of any immigrant. I am not arrogant enough to assume, that I have the market cornered on intellect. Your accusation was baseless. I never said that ILLEGAL immigants pay no taxes either. They do pay some taxes, but hardly the amount that legal citizens do. After all, you can't pay driver's license fees, if you don't have a legal driver's license. How about, property taxes, capital gains taxes, and so on. To list the taxes that illegal immigrants don't pay would take me all night. You need to remember, these people have come here illegally, tax evasion is probably not something that keeps them up at night.I don't mean this as an insult, but you are misinformed. My information is niether stupid or unrealistic. The same is true for me. I have lived in this country for 32 years. I have taken the time to research what I was saying.If I am wrong about anything I said in my original essay, just prove it, I won't take offense. Your reply didn't offer much information to back your theories. I urge you to calm down, and re-read my comments. You will see a direct paralell, to my analogy, and our current immigration policies. There is one thing I don't understand. If there are so many of these highly intelligent ILLEGAL immigrants, why are they afraid to go through the proper immigration channels? Why are they afraid to learn English? Why don't they use this intelligence to fix up their homeland?I think that you beleive that people who feel the way I do, are against all immigration. This is far from true. We just want to make sure that you are not carrying a communicable desease, and that you are not a criminal. Is that really so much to ask? Do you let just anyone off the street enter the house where your children live? Do you not have a door on your home? I would bet, that you ask "who's there?" before you open that door. I am very glad to here of your educational acheivements, you are a credit to our country, and we are happy to have you. Your's sounds like an example of what immigration is supposed to be. That is NOT sarcasm. Personally, I would be pissed off, if I knew that people were bypassing the same hoops that I had to jump through, and getting the same benefits. I guess that's just me. If you were here ILLEGALLY, my tax dollars have no buisiness being used to do any thing but deport you.To recap, LEGAL immigrants are good, ILLEGAL immigrants are bad. Repeat 100 times, then reply. And before you make the accusation, I apply this policy to everyone, even Canadians, and British. It's not a race thing, it's a common sense thing. If you can demonstrate were I am out of line, I promise I will listen. A little less conjecture, and a little more logic next time, please. Thank you.

This message is for TERRY and any other person who posed a messagge as stupid as hers/his. Did the pilgrims in 1620 who came in the Mayflower get checked for deseases? Have a backgroung check? I think not. Your problem is that you can't stand that there is people smarter than you who are "illegal". For your information people who are illegally in the United States pay their taxes also. I would like to know where you got your information from because I can guarentee that your information is just as stupid and unrealistic as you. I have lived in this country for eight years I was in the top 10 in my graduating class and I'm going to college paying instate tuition, just like my friends who are citizens. If that makes you mad GOOD. Chill because in a few years there's going to be the same number of you as me. As for BigDaddy, no taxpayer is paying for my education, I'M PAYING IT MY SELF. The guy who did the Oklahoma City bombing was a white American citizen, how's that for a shoker. When any of you ignorants hear of a Mexican commiting any type of terrorist attack call me.GOD BLESS Orrin Hatch and Dick Durbin.

People, People, People. The operative word here is ILLEGAL. If you are an illegal alien, from any country, you and your children, are entitled to nothing but deportation. You have broken the law and are a drain on our economy. You are a big reason that our taxes are high, and our healthcare system is so expensive. We have a process for coming here legally, when you go through this process, you are welcome. If you ignore our immigration laws, then you have not been checked for deseases, or criminal background. Therefore, you are also a heath risk and possibly a criminal, which makes you a drain on our justice system as well. You are pissing in the faces, of anyone who has ever immigrated here legally. You have cut in line. How would you like it if I butted in front of you, got on the roller coaster, had sex with your sister, gave her tuberculosis, took your brother's job, and expected you to pay for my ticket. This is what every illegal immigrant is doing. This country is not here for criminals, or desease carrying freeloaders. This is the most welcoming country in the world, stop taking advantage of us. Go back, get in line, and come in the right way. One more thing, have some common courtesy, learn our god-dammed language!

we belive in equality but don't let people that pay taxes and never clame them because they can't, and make this country rich. they should be also be free to get a higher educatio, unlike others they only came to have a better life and not to kill natives, and did not crossed an ocean they only crossed a river. so this kids should have an equal oppurtunity.

You peaople are a buch or stupid douche bags the don't understand the we were here before you asses, according to you we invated your country. We should be the ones kicking you out. You call this the land of the fucking free though we have to work all the time and not be equal to you. Now just Fuck off.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THIS IS A GREAT COUNTRY, BUT LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IT HAS ITS IGNORANT PEOPLE. I THINK THAT PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE ILLEGAL PAY MORE MONEY AND GIVE MORE THAN THOSE THAT ARE LEGAL. ONE THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT WHEN YOU SAY AMERICA YOU ARE REFERING TO THE WHOLE CONTINENT, BECAUSE AMERICA IS FROM CANADA ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE TIP OF ARGENTINA. !!VIVA MEXICO CABRONES!!