Over 20% of those without health insurance are not citizens

There's a picture here with Census Bureau figures from 2006 showing that over 20% of those without health insurance are not citizens (~46 million and ~10 million). They don't indicate what percentage of the 10 million are here legally vs. those here illegally, but surely a good percentage are illegal aliens. And, of course, illegal aliens stand a lesser chance of being counted in the Census for various reasons.

Perhaps the point could be made to those Democrats who are pushing Universal Health Care that one of the impediments to their schemes is that many Americans object to picking up the tab for foreign citizens who are here illegally, especially considering that based on their past actions both the Mexican government and their sympathizers would take steps to encourage even more Mexican citizens to come here and take advantage of our largesse. Perhaps if we worked at it we could even force the Democrats to choose between their support for UHC and their support for massive illegal immigration.


If we throw out the illegals the ensuing labor shortage will probably cause employers to compete for the newly scarce unskilled laborforce. One of the ways they will compete is with improved benefits packages including health insurance. Reducing the uninsured by 20% through deportations might have the effect of furthere reducing the uninsured by another hefty percentage as employers see the wisdom in offering improved benefits to retain their remaining workforce.

If that's what the statistics say, you can be sure the reality is even worse. Every media story about the uninsured beats up on America for letting this happen. As if those of us who pay our bills are to blame for those who don't. They never mention immigration. And they never mention that just because you're uninsured doesn't mean you don't get health care. It just means it's FREE. The secret password is _No Hablo_.

Lonewacko, Your post is a point that I as a life long Democrat and a staunch supporter of a Single Payer health insurance system have been saying for years. Since I have been commenting here for the last 4 months I must have made this point at least a half dozen times. I have made this same point over at Liberal blogs like Hullabaloo and Sirotablog/Working Assets dozens and dozens of times. The Open Borders position is completely incompatible with a Universal Health Care position. Democratic politicians should be held accountable to be honest on this fact with the electorate. Instead, every Presidential candidate including Edwards, sad to say, is attempting to have it both ways and is unwilling to confront the Open Borders lefties. Yet no intelligent and honest independent or Democratic voter is unaware of the dilemma. Traditional Liberals have always countered the "New Left" Open Border crowd's claims that a workable Capitalist Social Welfare state could be compatible with de facto Open Borders. I believe both Roy Beck of NumbersUSA and Prof Norm Matloff, the well known opponent of the heinous H1-B and L1 visa programs have carefully studied Census data and the rising number of those with out Health Insurance. A major contributing factor are family members entering the United States under Chain Migration rules who are unable to secure working providing Healthcare or are either too old or young and must have their health care needs provided through various public programs especially the now impossibly over burdened County Hospital systems. Likewise the H1-B and L1 visa programs are displacing formerly middle class workers whose former jobs came with health insurance. These same folks are now paying for over priced private insurance of increasingly dubious value or simply rolling the dice and going without. The focus of the film SICKO was on the increasingly poor quality of many private individual health care policies. I believe that impact that Illegal Aliens are having on our Health care system is not really reflected in any US Census data. Many County and local "Charity" Hospitals are run as non-profits and do not release the number of Illegals they treat. Nor do they indicate the burden of cost that are being shifted upon those US Citizens with lousy private health care coverage or no insurance but some ability to pay. Politicians of both parties are absolutely chicken shit to demand an honest public accounting of the impact of Illegal Immigration on Healthcare costs. The real impact of Illegal Immigration is that increasingly individual private insurance is insanely too expensive or refuses to cover many essential or commonplace medical services and procedures. Likewise the Uninsured are being pushed into bankruptcy as they are being wildly overcharged for medical bills that those with good quality group plans pay at a fraction of the cost.

Lonewacko, Sad to say I think you have a ultimate Presidental Debate question for Democrats. How can one possibly square the Public's support for UHC with the clear and increasing public opposition to the continuance of Open Borders policies due in large part to the impact it is having on our already strained Social Welfare safety net. "Open Borders" takes the one clear cut winning populist issue for Democrats in 2008, UHC, right off the table. It is inconceivable that the UHC will ever again enjoy the mass publicity boost it has gained this year from the release of the film SICKO. As a long suffering Democrat I have learned to never underestimate our Party's elitist hapless Washington Beltway permanent political class's capacity to FU an almost certain victory and loose the White House.

llamajockey, The Open Borders position is not compatible with a whole lot more than Universal Heathcare. It's incompatible with being a Democrat, Republican, or American. The invaders and the usurpers helping them from within our own government are NOT interested in what We the People want. The revolution you leftist-liberals have been agitating for is just around the corner. And, uh, I'm sorry to inform you, it's not going to include "free" universal healthcare.

And before you spew some crap about "conservatives" being to blame too, save it. Globalists like Bush are not conservatives. Neocons are not conservatives. The people for Open Borders are traitors - whether they call themselves conservatives or Republicans or say they're "tough on defense".

'The Open Borders position is completely incompatible with a Universal Health Care position.' It really is that simple and was also put succinctly by Milton Friedman: "You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state." I think incompatibility with social welfare should always be dovetailed with illegal labor undercutting working Americans. That way you show that two (supposedly) liberal core values are undermined by open borders . The two examples together are more powerful than separate and make hypocritical open border liberals look that much more ridiculous and fraudulent. 'think you have a ultimate Presidental Debate question for Democrats. How can one possibly square the Public's support for UHC with the clear and increasing public opposition to the continuance of Open Borders policies due in large part to the impact it is having on our already strained Social Welfare safety net.' Remember this debate question? What an opportunity lost for follow up questions which would have made Dodd and Richardson look like idiots: QUESTION: Hi, this is Lucia Ballie (ph) for a group of friends on the east side of L.A. And our question is: Does your health care plan cover undocumented workers? QUESTION: Thank you. COOPER: Senator Dodd? DODD: First of all, I hope all of us get a chance to comment on this issue. This is a huge issue that deserves the attention and every candidate here ought to have the chance to talk about health care. (CROSSTALK) DODD: First of all, the woman with the Alzheimer's issue -- stem cell research. Under a Dodd administration, stem cell research will be conducted so they can deal with diabetes. (APPLAUSE) Regarding the family that's talking about diabetes, 49 percent of our school districts have exclusive contracts with soft drink companies and junk food companies because we're not funding enough in our education system. (APPLAUSE) That's an obesity problem as well. COOPER: Would your plan cover undocumented workers? DODD: It would. People who live in this country -- children certainly would be covered. And I'm in support of the immigration policy here that requires them to contribute so that... COOPER: So that's a yes? DODD: If they're paying part of that thing, then they also get covered. Because, frankly, I don't want them contributing disease problems and health issues to the rest of the... COOPER: Let's try to answer the question. COOPER: Would your plan, Governor Richardson, cover undocumented workers? RICHARDSON: Yes, it would. It should cover everybody. (APPLAUSE) In this country, no matter who you are, whether you're a ditch- digger, you're a teacher, you're a CEO, you're a waiter, you're a maid, every American deserves the right to the best possible quality health care. http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/23/debate.transcript.part2/

Llamajockey, Well said. I'm an independent voter who often has voted Democratic in the past. I won't be this time around for precisely the reasons you mention.

THE REVOLUTION YOU LEFTIST-LIBERALS HAVE BEEN AGITATING FOR IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER. AND, UH, I\'M SORRY TO INFORM YOU, IT\'S NOT GOING TO INCLUDE "FREE" UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE. Tanstaafl The pro Open Borders factions within the Democratic party are a odd coalition of the out of touch; the DLC Global Corporatists like Hillary, Leviticus spouting Religious Lefties like Jim Wallis and Ted Kennedy, the Latino Ethnocentric lobbies, the remaining 70s-80s generation Jesse Jackson style rainbow coalition Black leadership and the now aging Marcusian/Gramscian New Lefties. However, I still believe that opinion polls clearly show that a majority of self identifying Democrats do not support Open Borders policies. Nor do traditional New Deal inspired Liberals and Progressives like Dorgan or Sanders for example. The Lou Dobbs wing of the Democratic party is the fastest growing. This group has yet to make up its mind on what candidate to support in the primaries. They are really the only force that can stop Hillary. However, right now the DLC Corporatists still has a stranglehold on the party's legislative agenda. That explains how the supposed "Working Man/Woman's Party" can continue to support clearly anti-worker cheap labor policies. That said I among many Democrats have a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that Hillary's money and support from the Party's permanent entrenched backslapping/backscratching Washington circles will ensure an all but certain meltdown over Immigration Border Security related issues in 2008. Hillary's trainwreck will make everybody forget about Dukakis. Just don't paint all Democrats with the same brush and we will do the same for the Republicans.