What got into the DUmmies?

Earlier I noted the DUmmies being somewhat sane on immigration matters. Now comes the thread "How the Working Class Views Immigration". Aside from the bit about "working class" it could be a thread at... FreeRepublic. This similar thread is not quite as good but still of interest. Please, please, please: I assure you. Our operatives are not behind this. #3294 is concentrating on liberal blogs, and #83921 is on vacation. No, this is coming from inside DUmmyland itself.


If ralph is not preaching open borders and unlimited illegal immigration with Mexico then what the hell is he saying? Does he deny the law of supply and demand that proves that a greatly increased supply of labor will decrese the price of labor? And how does the mass migration of a largely poorly educated and low-IQ Third World peasantry help the international competiveness of the US?

The problem is that ralph either can't read or fails to understand the implications of what he is saying. He is clearly for open borders
with Mexico but denies he is for a borderless world.
He wants to flood the US labor market but does bnot realize that the lwas of supply and demand mean this will inevitably lower wages.

And seelow heights has resorted to the typical tactic: when you can't address the issues that your opponent raises, put words in his mouth.

I have been accused of preaching world-without-borders nitwitter. I never preached such a thing. I have been accused of thinking that US-born poor deserve to starve to death. I have never thought anything like that.

seelow heights is pitiful.

Ralph is preaching the standard world-without-borders "libertarian" nitwittery. Notice that he thinks both that the US-born poor deserve to starve and that an open borders immigration policy can be construed as a species of foreign aid. What the libertarians want would bring about a borderless world run by the major corporations.Goodbye all workplace protection and farewell nature! There is a reason why the libertarian loonies have been running candidates for some thirty years and have yet to be elected to anything.

Despite the usual doomsday bs that people have been spewing for centuries, we are hardly adversely affected by immigration. Those with low education levels are falling farther and farther behind the educated all over the world. In fact, the skill premium in Mexico is even greater than in the US. Certainly that's not caused by immigration into Mexico.

The influx of educated immigrants has had a net positive effect on our economy as a whole.

And one thing that anti-immigration spinmeisters never consider is the benefits to the immigrants themselves and their families. This is NEVER taken into consideration by anti-immigration psychos as if the immigrants are not people or even worthy of being considered. When the benefits the immigrants themselves are considered, it is clear that society as a whole reaps a windfall reward from migration.

Just one more tidbit.

Some more info that relates mainly to high-tech workers. http://www.hireamericancitizens.org/amazing.html
At least 4 million H-1B visas were certified by the INS between 1998-2001.

Many H-1B workers are paid minimum wage as their official salary, and the rest of their salary is paid as "U.S. Living Expenses" that are non-taxable.(2003 Data)

L-1 workers are considered employees of a foreign company and paid by the foreign company. This means that they do not have to pay U.S. taxes. (2003 Data)

Students from India are given an exemption from paying taxes. (IRS Circular E, Employer's Tax Guide, page 14)

At least 800,000 highly-skilled U.S. workers are now unemployed as a direct result of the H-1B visa legislation, which failed to include protection for U.S. workers. (2001 Reporting)
"Siemens management mandated Americans to train their foreign replacement workers; in Lake Mary, FL" After training, the Americans were laid off while the foreigners live and work in Lake Mary, FL (2003)
By the end of January 2003 more than 70% of laid-off technology workers had exhausted (used up) their unemployment benefits. Unemployment for technology workers has continued to rise, giving little hope for re-employment.

The total number of US technical jobs is around 8.5 million and we have imported around 3-4 million temporary foreign technical workers.

In the year 2001, 9 out of every 10 new job openings for computer/IT were taken by H-1Bs, and despite record unemployment the INS issued 312,000 visas in 2002.
Even though they are legally mandated to do so, the Immigration and naturalization Service (INS) has publicly and willfully refused to deport H-1B workers with expired visas. Although the law says that H-1B visa holders must leave the country immediately after being laid-off or fired, the INS has told them that no one will be forced to leave, and to keep looking for new jobs.

The INS estimates that roughly 3.2 million of the estimated eight million illegal immigrants living in the U.S. (or 40 percent), originally entered the country on non-immigrant visas (such as H-1B, L-1, etc.). These 3.2 million non-immigrants have become illegal immigrants by overstaying their visas. Because of its failure to implement an entry-exit system as required by a 1996 law, the INS has no way to identify or locate them. As more H-1Bs and other non-immigrant visa holders lose their jobs in the recession, and remain in the country until they find work, this number will no doubt be significantly higher.

In 1950 the US had a poulation of 150 million. Today it has 300 million. It is scheduled to be 404 million by 2050. Two-thirds of population growth comes from immigration. Should we shoot for a billion? http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PT_articles/January-March_2000/Immigration_Comes_Alive_in_Newest_U_S__Population_Projections.htm
Immigrant impact on wages
n an earlier column [Immigration Now Impacting College-Educated Employment And Incomes, March 25, 2004] I reported that immigrants are over-represented at both the top and bottom of the educational spectrum, with relatively little in between. Odd result: the impact of immigrant wage competition falls disproportionately on American high school dropouts and college grads respectively.

Northeastern University

seelow heights wrote: "That settles it! Ralph Nelson's buddy is doing fine so that means there are no problems inherent in mass immigration. You truly are a brilliant analyst,Ralph."

I can't help but sense the sarcasm. If you think we are so bad off, then show where. Please. Enlighten us all. How is our nation suffering so bad? I would like to know.

That settles it! Ralph Nelson's buddy is doing fine so that means there are no problems inherent in mass immigration. You truly are a brilliant analyst,Ralph.

A buddy of mine with no college education and no previous experience just got a job as a carpenter's apprentice. He's making $12.50/hour plus health insurance. With the amount of overtime these guys work, we're talking about a lot of money.

Anti-immigrant nut cases have been pissing and moaning for centuries about the adverse effects of first the Irish, then the Chinese and now Mexicans. Their doomsday predictions never come true. As we absorb millions of immigrants every decade, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world and one of the highest standards of living. Yet that doesn't stop the anti-immigration nuts from whining. Geez.