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Is Kos right? Can the Democrats continue to support massive illegal activity and not pay for it at the ballot box?

Leader Kos offers "Yup, immigration not the GOP's savior", saying "the demonization of scary brown people -- has been a flop" and linking to this WaPo article. While I didn't read the latter, the Washington Post explicity supports illegal immigration, so there's a very good chance they put their own special spin on things.

However, it's obvious that Kos is wrong because there's no good argument for massive illegal activity. In fact, about the only "argument" those who support illegality can muster is that which Kos uses in his post: playing the race card. If the Dems were unable to play that card, their corrupt schemes would be evident and they wouldn't be able to push them. And, some in the GOP play that card as well.

Obviously, it's a very strong card and many people are cowed by it. And, some make things worse by giving legitimacy to childish "arguments" like Kos' by reflexively claiming they aren't racists (see the bit about LBJ here). The way to deal with it is to acknowledge that some opposition to illegal immigration may be racist, but to claim that opposition is per se racist is a logical fallacy. Kos is being illogical.

And, we can point out that by hiding behind the race card, Kos is in effect supporting everything that illegal immigration involves and entails, ranging from being an indicator of massive government corruption to giving foreign governments more political power inside to the U.S. all the way to border deaths. By enabling illegal immigration, Kos is helping - in his own small way - encourage more people to try to cross the desert, with some of them dying along the way.

And, what Kos fails to note (and probably doesn't realize) is that those who support illegal activity have been able to succeed in large part because they've been able to fix the debate. If the mainstream media were doing their jobs, they would have asked the presidential candidates about the huge glaring gaps in their immigration policies and would have revealed that almost all of the front-runners just can't think things through or are corrupt. That carries over to the presidential "debates"; some of those haven't featured any questions about immigration at all, and at the ones that did the questions were extremely lightweight.

And, what Kos doesn't mention is that the leadership of the GOP supports illegal immigration just as much as the leadership of the Democratic Party. In the past, that's caused them to work against members of their own party who oppose illegal immigration, even if it means losing a seat.

In summary, it's fairly easy for someone who's familiar with these issues and who's familiar with scoring points against an opponent and who isn't afraid to do that to discredit those who support illegal immigration and force them to lose support. However, the GOP leadership isn't about to push for that, and the corrupt mainstream media isn't going to do it either. That means that we need to do it by going to campaign appearances, asking tough questions about this issue, and then uploading the response.

The Democrats - and many Republicans - are extremely vulnerable on this issue. We just need to point it out to enough people.

Immigration2007b · Wed, 11/07/2007 - 11:34 · Importance: 1

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 19:43
llamajockey

Democrats have very good reasons to be very afraid. Two term Democratic Indianapolis Mayor Bart Peterson who has been supporting Santuary City policies in Marion County lost a stunning shocker of an election to political neo-phyte Greg Ballard. Ballard had almost NO GOP funding or backing!!! Ballard was also strongly opposed by the Gannett owned Indianapolis Star which is strong pro Open Borders. Yes there was a major property tax revolt and corruption allegations among key Democratic city council members that played key roles in the election. But local talk radio was a blaze with out rage over public spending on behalf of illegal aliens. ESL education is growing rapidly in the public schools through the county. Meanwhile African Americans are fleeing the IPS schools for the townships and collar counties. A plaque of repeat offender drunk driving by Mexican illegal aliens has been a story that finally even the Indy Star had to begin covering. Likewise there were a number of shocking child molestation, rape and murder case involving repeatedly arrested and deported illegal aliens. The county hospital Wishard apparently has a major financial mess caused by illegals that the local media does not like to discuss openly. However Wishard been written up numerous times over its attempts to pass off this burden onto backs of uninsured citizens. Even more shocking in Frankfort Indiana, a town which the Indy Star had writing a strong pro-Open Borders article about only weeks earlier. The Independent candidate crushed both the Republican and Democratic candidates on an enforcment based platform. Mostly rural Clinton county Indiana has become a major destination for illegals in the last decade. see http://www.saynotoillegalimmigration.com/2007/10/21/frankfort-indiana-finally-wakes-up-regarding-illegal-immigration/

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 19:47
Tanstaafl
age-of-treason.blogspot.com/

_And, what Kos fails to note (and probably doesn't realize) is that those who support illegal activity have been able to succeed in large part because they've been able to fix the debate._ True, true, true, and true. The Universalist dictators control both parties and the media. Kos is at best an wittingly pathetic partisan actor in the big kabuki. At worst he's one of the directors. His view that "demonization of those scary brown people" is "alienating key, fast-growing, immigrant communities" is revealing. When did We the People ever express our desire for mass immigration? Oh, that's right, We never did, and We were never asked. When enough of us finally realized what the One-World Progressivist Globalist Universalists were doing behind our backs We shut down the Senate phone system and told them NO. Kos speaks for the Universalists who are raping this country and the rest of the West. He favors the interests of aliens over those of his own countrymen. Keep that in mind whenever he speaks.

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 19:59
llamajockey

Tanstaafl, Markos is a prime example of what the progress populist activist David Sirota has been calling an out of touch bourgeois liberal netroots blogger. Markos's is from a Greek/Salvadoran family that owns one of the largest resort hotels in El Salavador. Markos grew up a Du Page County Illinois Republican. As a kid he was a rabid Republican activist for Henry Hyde. Later Markos joined the Army and then went on to law school. He then tried to cash in on the Dot-Com bubble in the Bay Area as a lawyer. Gee Immigration Lawyer perhaps??? Later he settled in on the blogging craze as a way to make his name. Outside of his brief stint in the Army where he rubbed up against average Americans, I serious doubt Markos has much appreciation for how Open Borders and lousy Free Trade policies are impacting working and middle class Americans.

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 20:01
llamajockey

Notice that even in the comment section of the Dailykos which is invested with hard core Open Borders favoring ANSWER trolls, you find significant support for Immigration Restrictionist policies.

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 20:45
Hal K

Parts of Fairfax County, VA are being overrun by gangs, despite the assertion by Gerry Connelly that they fixed the problem: http://www.nbc4.com/news/5422790/detail.html Connelly says that they are doing everything they are legally allowed to do about illegal immigration, which is not true. The Washington Post's bias is clear. They talk about Congress's "failure" to pass comprehensive immigration reform in what are supposed to be news stories.

Wed, 11/07/2007 - 20:52
llamajockey

Oh my!!! Take a look for yourself. First Salon then HuffPo, is the DailyKos next in line? The comment section of the Huffington Post inspite of Arianna's best attempts are now overwhelming favoring the Restrictionist side of the immigration debate. Arianna signs up one more shrill pro Open Borders advocate after another only to see them get shot down in the comments sections by increasingly larger majorities. See for yourself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roberto-lovato/antiimmigrant-electoral-_b_71582.html Likewise I am really surprised and glad to see the number of commenters over at DailyKos clearly rejecting Commandante Markos's framing of the immigration debate.

Thu, 11/08/2007 - 00:20
JR

I don't think the proper association has been recognized just yet. My social circles include quite a few Republicans who were so outraged by the various forms of "amnesty" that they purposefully did not give their usual donations to the Republican National Committee or various candidates (with their hands out). As a result, the Democrats, for the first time in a very long time are out fundraising their counterparts. I tossed it off to my friends being the smart ones until I heard this news (concerning shortfalls in Republican fundraising). Now, I think it is a microcosm of the entire country. Will they be angry enough to vote with the same motivation? That remains to be seen. JR

Thu, 11/08/2007 - 00:57
amanda

'The comment section of the Huffington Post inspite of Arianna's best attempts are now overwhelming favoring the Restrictionist side of the immigration debate.' You make a good point. I've also noticed even on the extreme 'progressive' blogs that there are often people who say 'I almost always agree with you ____, but you are wrong on immigration' And they don't just speak from a left friendly anti-profiteering/worker exploitation angle, but often from a more right friendly authoritarian 'law and order' perspective. Clearly, there is a silent vast majority which has at least a semblance of respect for rule of law. I mean, it's bred into you. All the open borders rationalizers for corruption and looking the other way at law breaking will be hard pressed to overcome this deeply ingrained accountability to law. Tactics like labeling anyone who feels this way as being against "scary brown people" has been effective but creates backlash. I don't think that crap works as well in a world of talk radio and internet where people can see that lots of others feel just like them. Race baiting is a great chiller of face to face expression but radio and net let people remain anonymous and speak freely. I saw Krassner one time. He should be a hero to anyone who thinks the First Amendment doesn't just give you the right to offend but makes offending more of a duty. The greatest tribute to the guy is how many big shots hate(d) him. Krassner is a great, great American and we especially need to follow his example in an age with so much anti-democratic Orwellian named crap like the North American Competitiveness Council (NACC) which seeks to do the opposite of what its name is. Some of the anti-American stuff today is so absurd his methods are PERFECT for exposing it. The open border zealots are quick to judge and label you and then immediately cover their ears and eyes to what you have to say. One method is take the irrational open borders ideas to their illogical and absurd ends. Stuff like 'just think. if we brought every poor person in the world to the U.S. we could end world poverty'. But will true ideologues get the joke? I read Julian Simon and think this is so absurd people couldn't possibly take it seriously--but some do and they probably subscribe to Reason magazine. The healthcare for all-open borders contradiction is just ripe for some ridiculous joke question which would throw the answerer and make them look like an idiot! It shouldn't be that hard--Hillary got thrown by a straightforward drivers license question! Even one notch above puffball and all hell breaks loose but we rarely even get those. The guy who coined the term 'pseudo-debate' got it right.

Thu, 11/08/2007 - 02:28
Tanstaafl
age-of-treason.blogspot.com/

Ahem. I am a non-partisan. The Republican and Democrat parties can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. On immigration both demonstrate their utter corruption. There is something some commenters here seem a little confused about. That everybody is equal, that no person is illegal, that race is a social construct and only Whites can be racists, that nationalism is bad, that multiculturalism and diversity are goals to be pursued because they are valuable - these are the ideas used to justify the invasion. These are PROGRESSIVIST ideas. If you do not agree with uncontrolled mass immigration then perhaps it is because you don't agree with these ideas. Perhaps you are not a Progressive. Jobs Americans won't do, our economy would collapse without immigrants - those are GLOBALIST ideas. Most democrats are naturally repelled by them. It's republicans who fall for these canards. UNIVERSALISM = PROGRESSIVISM + GLOBALISM. There aren't many true Universalists. Unfortunately they run the media and both parties. Think for yourself. I'm encouraged to see so many dissenters at Kos and HuffPo. There are even a few who are seeing past partisanship.

Thu, 11/08/2007 - 04:07
Peggy McGilligan
web.mac.com/writecoast/iWeb/Site/Blog/Blog.html

Please, lets not be spoiled sports. We already taught them to fly. Now, lets teach ‘em to drive. Get 'em out of the "shadows," on to the streets. After all, Leon Panetta would be the first to tell us that immigrants paved these roads. "This is a complicated issue," says Bill Clinton. But how "complicated" is illegal? What could go wrong? Does anybody remember that two of the 9-11 hijackers visas were renewed, six months after they died in those attacks? What could happen? And why does the incidence of Al Qaeda flight students, trained at the University of Bill Clinton, remain a non-issue? Einstein said, “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” So far, the silence is deafening: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Thu, 11/08/2007 - 05:05
Fred Dawes
www.myspace.com/freddawes1776

if you really want to know what is behind this evil BS Go check out END GAME Alex Jones, "just Google the name End Game", and start watching, the fact is the new world order is behind this evil against you and its coming, and understand one fact population can and is being used as a weapon against you.

Fri, 11/09/2007 - 00:16
Smitty

In a word Yes al long as we don't audit the voter roles, who knows millions of illegals could already be voting, I can't imagine American citizens electing the Sanchez Seesters or Fabian Nunez or Antonio Villaraigosa.